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'Mahabharata' In The Old Testament


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#1 little bird

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 10:31 AM

This is an article from East-West, the former name of our SRF magazine, giving the most fascinating explanation of the overall symbology of the Old Testament (the collection of Jewish scriptures found in the Christian Bible), which in effect is nothing but the same theme that Master has explained in GTWA, his commentary on the Bhagavad Gita!

The article explains that the meaning of the OT is primarily allegorical and symbolic but has been taken as literal. This has led not only to a lack of understanding of the OT, but to the belief that the OT is speaking of the harshest sorts of violence and punishments when in actuality it is symbolically describing the esoteric spiritual battle fought by the soul on its way to becoming One with God.

To finally find out what the OT is really all about, is this cool, or what. :) :love: :pronam: :sparkle:



East-West Jan./Feb. 1928

THE EASTERN STAR—By M. W. Lewis


In the ancient philosophies we find places in the body spoken of as North, South, East and West. We are especially interested in the East and West locations. The West refers to the posterior part or that part containing the spinal centers while the front or anterior portion is referred to as the East. It is here that we see the Light, the reflection of the medulla center, in which is the Door through which Christ consciousness is attained.

There are times when we seem close to the Spirit, and the Light shines brilliantly as we feel its power and presence. A reference to this manifestation of the Spirit is found in the Bible in connection with the guidance of the children of Israel with "a cloud by day and a pillar of fire by night."

WHO ARE THE "CHOSEN PEOPLE OF THE LORD"?

—By Nicolai Husted


So-called "Rationalists" and Bible-critics have always displayed poor judgment in their attack on the scriptures, by showing first of all their ignorance as to the meaning of their subject. Bob Ingersoll, for instance, pointed out certain passages of the Psalms as examples of the most corrupt writings in all the world's literature, and as evidence tending to show that the psalmists were as corrupt, revengeful and primitive as any savage of the jungle.

True enough, the psalmist prays to the Lord for help to torture to death his enemies and their children, but Ingersoll did not grasp the fact that he was dealing with an allegoric writing, and that the psalmist speaks about the enemies of self, namely, the physical desires, parental inheritances, habits and propensities of the flesh, which are the last and most enduring enemies which man has to fight.

The symbolical expression in the Old Testament, "The chosen People of the lord," has been, and is still, misunderstood by Jews and Christians alike. It belongs to the Mosaic allegories and is probably of Egyptian origin, as is the case with much in the early Jewish scriptures.

We read: "For thou art a holy people unto the Lord thy God. The Lord thy God had chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are on the face of the earth." (Deuteronomy 7:6). This and similar passages in Genesis have been applied by the Jews to themselves, exclusively, as tending to show that they are the chosen people of the Lord, and superior to any other race of man.

That the Creator of all mankind could show such favoritism is not possible. That the Jews misunderstood their own scriptures is a charge made by Jesus himself, running all through the gospels. Yet what interests us here is to see clearly what the prophets meant by the holy and chosen people of the Lord that are superior to any other people on the face of the earth.

The Doctrine of Ancient Philosophy


In the esoteric schools of philosophy, man is regarded as a miniature universe, known as the Microcosm of the Macrocosm, containing within himself the essence and attributes of all there is and ever was, spirit as well as matter. Therefore, as there is a Supreme God in the Macrocosm, or in the cosmic universe, so likewise is there a God of the same potential nature in the Microcosm, man, although as yet undeveloped. Hence man is an evolving god; and it is written, as Jesus himself called to the attention of the Jews, that "Ye are gods." In other words: The people of the earth are gods potentially, awaiting manifestation of their hidden powers.

Furthermore, as there are forces and principalities, good and bad, always in conflict striving for supremacy in the great outside world, so in like manner, are two opposite forces of living elements struggling for supremacy in the world within man. The relation of these two opposite forces in human nature make up the ground plan of the Old Testamental scriptures.

In the Psalms of the Bible these two forces are spoken of as two different classes of people. The one class is made up of several different tribes, known as the enemies of David, the enemies of the Lord, and the enemies of the Children of Israel.

In this same symbology, King David himself is a symbolical figure and stands for man at that advanced stage of spiritual development where he has taken up the battle against the enemies of self. We also find that the Psalms are full of lamentations by David that his enemies continually try, in various ways, to destroy his soul.

The other class of forces, written about by the prophets and psalmists as always being in conflict with the former, are called the righteous people, God's people, who appeal to the Lord for help to destroy their enemies. These forces, then, represent the spiritual powers and faculties in the soul and nature of man; and it is they, therefore, and not the Jews, who are the chosen people of the Lord. They are the ones whom the Lord or Godhead of man has chosen as a special people unto Himself above all other people on the face of the earth. In other words, the spiritual powers in man are developing toward divinity and immortality, and shall lie with their Lord forever, whereas the lower elements of the animal man shall perish.

The "Lord" in the Old Testament and the "Father" in the New Testament are identical and signify generally the individualized divinity in man. We may, therefore, lay particular stress on this beautiful fact that every human being has his own lord, or divine Father, such as is written about by the prophets, and spoken about by Jesus to his disciples, but which the latter failed to comprehend.

It is through spiritual awakening that the Christ-child is born or evolved in man. He is the Prince of Peace and Saviour of each human world. He is to ascend the "Throne of David," or, in the meaning of the symbology, is to permeate the intellectual powers of man and be his guiding principle in the spirit forever.

Return Of the Children Of Israel To Their Own Land


In diffused passages all through the prophetical writings we read about the return at some future date of the Children of Israel to their own land, led by a mighty and holy being called the "Son of David", who shall be their king in the land of promise forever. These passages are generally thought to be prophecies of the return of the Jews to Palestine, but such an interpretation is not the true one.

Inasmuch as the "Children of Israel" are the spiritual powers in the soul and nature of man, the "land of inheritance" of these children of the Spirit, given to them by God for an eternal kingdom, has reference to the kingdom of the Spirit and is not of this world. In other words that holy land is divinity itself, evolved out of man's inborn powers and attributes, inherited from the Creator. There is no other divine inheritance, either for Jews or Gentiles.

The Children of Israel remain dispersed by God into all parts of the world. This reference is not to a particular race, the Jews, but simply means that the spiritual seedlings of the human soul are dispersed into all kinds of worldly interests and occupations, which serve them as agencies of evolution.

The psalmist understood all this when he said: "Wait on the Lord and keep his way, and He shall exalt thee to inherit the land; when the wicked is cut off, then thou shalt see it." In other words, to inherit the land is an exaltation of spirit by the Lord, in consequence of keeping his "way," the way of righteousness. It is on that way that the wicked shall be "cut off," or that the lower nature shall be conquered. It is along that way that the Children of Israel are returning from all parts of the world to their own land, and it is along that way that the chosen people of the Lord are walking through the world.

http://mysticalportal.net/3-2.html#wh


"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


#2 Stargazer

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 12:49 PM

Fascinating!
Thanks a lot, dear L.B. :D :love: Stargz.
Make life an enjoyable experience of the soul.

[This] evenmindedness, when maintained by regular deep meditation, removes the boredom, disappointment, and sorrow from everyday life, making it instead a very interesting and enjoyable experience of the soul.

Paramahansa Yogananda in "Inner Peace" page 13.

#3 lotusflower

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 01:02 AM

Thanks for posting, Little Bird!!! :love: Very interesting! :meditate:

IDF, Lotusflower. :pronam:
Everything in the future will improve if you make the spiritual effort now.

#4 chelaum

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 08:47 AM

Two thumbs up! AUM GURU

#5 Gurucharan

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Posted 25 November 2010 - 11:21 PM

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

Thanks for that post with lovely insights.

IDF

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:16 AM

Besides the allegorical interpretation, the Old Testament is also a historical writing of the ancient Jewish culture and religion , some of it dating back to the time that the Jews were nomads. The history is more or less true. Jesus was after all born a "Jew" in Israel, brought up in the traditional Jewish lifestyle and religion 2000 years ago. To deny the Jews their history, culture and homeland by writing it off as nothing but metaphysical allegory, is like denying Hindus their culture, religion and homeland and saying that Krishna, Ganesh and Shiva are nothing more than symbolic representations of the inner spiritual struggle of mankind and Vimanas were not ancient flying machines in India, but waring thought processes in the spiritual seeker.
The Bible is allegorical and symbolic just like the Gita is allegorical and symbolic, but just like the battle of Kurukshetra was a real military battle fought thousands of years ago and an inner symbolism, the Bible, especially the Old Testament, is an expose' of actual historical events and at the same time symbolic and allegorical, even though it is a selected assortment of writings that leaves out other books, namely the Gnostic Gospels. The first 5 books in the OT however are recognized as the authentic, complete writings of the Pentateuch or "Torah" that the Hebrews passed down for thousands of years.


#7 chelaum

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:25 AM

SRFD, I agree. On a different thread from a few months ago I gave a simple commentary on the first chapter of the Gospel of John the Beloved and it's correlation to the Mandukyopanishad. It's striking their similarity! AUM GURU

#8 little bird

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:45 AM

Besides the allegorical interpretation, the Old Testament is also a historical writing of the ancient Jewish culture and religion , some of it dating back to the time that the Jews were nomads. The history is more or less true. Jesus was after all born a "Jew" in Israel, brought up in the traditional Jewish lifestyle and religion 2000 years ago. To deny the Jews their history, culture and homeland by writing it off as nothing but metaphysical allegory, is like denying Hindus their culture, religion and homeland and saying that Krishna, Ganesh and Shiva are nothing more than symbolic representations of the inner spiritual struggle of mankind and Vimanas were not ancient flying machines in India, but waring thought processes in the spiritual seeker.
The Bible is allegorical and symbolic just like the Gita is allegorical and symbolic, but just like the battle of Kurukshetra was a real military battle fought thousands of years ago and an inner symbolism, the Bible is an expose' of actual historical events and at the same time symbolic and allegorical.


Dear friend,

You are of course correct that there is historical truth in the symbology and allegory. I think everyone is aware of that, at least I certainly am, and I have no doubt that the author of this article was aware of that, too.

However, the purpose of this thread, for me, was to discuss the fascinating esoteric truths of the Old Testament which I, and probably a lot of people, are only just now coming to understand. I would really like to continue on with this discussion, as I have more to add along to the thread about esoteric truths in the OT when I get time. And I hope others will add to the thread along these lines, too.

I think it's a very important topic. :praying: :meditate:

I am concerned about this becoming yet another thread that turns political and then gets sent to the Hot Potatoes board thus preventing the continuation of a very good discussion.

You have every right to discuss the modern political aspects concerning Israel, but the WE board was created as a place to do that (and this subject has been discussed there already several times). So I am asking that you or anyone else who would like to discuss this topic again start a new thread on that board.

I would greatly appreciated it, dear friend.


:pronam: :love:

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:58 AM


Besides the allegorical interpretation, the Old Testament is also a historical writing of the ancient Jewish culture and religion , some of it dating back to the time that the Jews were nomads. The history is more or less true. Jesus was after all born a "Jew" in Israel, brought up in the traditional Jewish lifestyle and religion 2000 years ago. To deny the Jews their history, culture and homeland by writing it off as nothing but metaphysical allegory, is like denying Hindus their culture, religion and homeland and saying that Krishna, Ganesh and Shiva are nothing more than symbolic representations of the inner spiritual struggle of mankind and Vimanas were not ancient flying machines in India, but waring thought processes in the spiritual seeker.
The Bible is allegorical and symbolic just like the Gita is allegorical and symbolic, but just like the battle of Kurukshetra was a real military battle fought thousands of years ago and an inner symbolism, the Bible is an expose' of actual historical events and at the same time symbolic and allegorical.


Dear friend,

You are of course correct that there is historical truth in the symbology and allegory. I think everyone is aware of that, at least I certainly am, and I have no doubt that the author of this article was aware of that, too.

However, the purpose of this thread, for me, was to discuss the fascinating esoteric truths of the Old Testament which I, and probably a lot of people, are only just now coming to understand. I would really like to continue on with this discussion, as I have more to add along to the thread about esoteric truths in the OT when I get time. And I hope others will add to the thread along these lines, too.

I think it's a very important topic. :praying: :meditate:

I am concerned about this becoming yet another thread that turns political and then gets sent to the Hot Potatoes board thus preventing the continuation of a very good discussion.

You have every right to discuss the modern political aspects concerning Israel, but the WE board was created as a place to do that (and this subject has been discussed there already several times). So I am asking that you or anyone else who would like to discuss this topic again start a new thread on that board.

I would greatly appreciated it, dear friend.


:pronam: :love:


LB, it seemed to me that you were saying that the OT was only allegorical; "The article explains that the meaning of the OT is primarily allegorical and symbolic but has been taken as literal"

I was'nt intending to make this political LB. I have to point out however, that you did bring up the "Palestine" issue relating to the Jews homeland, VIA that author, which in todays world is a highly charged political code word and issue.


#10 little bird

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 08:58 AM

SRFD, I agree. On a different thread from a few months ago I gave a simple commentary on the first chapter of the Gospel of John the Beloved and it's correlation to the Mandukyopanishad. It's striking their similarity! AUM GURU


I would love for you to repost the Mandukyopanishad part here on this thread. This is getting into the New Testament, but Master related this back to the Old Testament Book of Genesis, which deals with the same thing, which Master wrote a commentary on.

Here is the magnificent beginning of the Gospel of John:

(Just a note for those not familiar with these scriptures), the Gospel of John was written by Jesus' beloved disciple St. John who also wrote the esoteric book of Revelations (yoga science).

However, the man sent to bear witness whose name was John refers to John the Baptist, who preached about the 'coming of the Lord' preparing the way for Jesus.

John the Baptist was Jesus' Guru in the OT (Elijah) who took a lesser role in this incarnation as the forerunner of Christ.

This is also a perfect example of how literal history in scripture has a much deeper esoteric truth, because here Jesus is associated with the WORD, and the word is the AUM. Christ is the Light (as of the Light of the Christ Consciousness). John the Baptist is also symbolic of an aspect of yoga science as explained in Holy Science by Sri Yji.


John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.


2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


#11 little bird

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:14 AM

LB, it seemed to me that you were saying that the OT was only allegorical; "The article explains that the meaning of the OT is primarily allegorical and symbolic but has been taken as literal"I was'nt intending to make this political LB. I have to point out however, that you did bring up the "Palestine" issue relating to the Jews homeland which in todays world is a highly charged political code word.


Dear Srfd, thanks. :love: We know that often just a mention of a political aspect of any topic can be picked up by others and then the thread goes off in an entirely different direction, as happened to another of my threads on board one recently.

'Primarily' allegorical and symbolic was meant to indicate that this is not the only level of meaning. There are history and real Self-realized souls and Gurus involved in these allegories, just as in the Mahabharata, as we know. Jesus and his Guru are in the Old Testament, too.

But we would all agree, I think, that understanding the spiritual meaning, as opposed to the historical, is more important. Just as Master dealt with the esoteric meaning of the Mahabharata war, and barely mentioned the historical facts of it.

I copied an article from our own magazine which gave the esoteric meaning of the 'spiritual homeland' as part of the esoteric interpretation of the Old Testament.

The esoteric is what I would like to focus on here.


:pronam: :love:

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:46 AM


LB, it seemed to me that you were saying that the OT was only allegorical; "The article explains that the meaning of the OT is primarily allegorical and symbolic but has been taken as literal"I was'nt intending to make this political LB. I have to point out however, that you did bring up the "Palestine" issue relating to the Jews homeland which in todays world is a highly charged political code word.


Dear Srfd, thanks. :love: We know that often just a mention of a political aspect of any topic can be picked up by others and then the thread goes off in an entirely different direction, as happened to another of my threads on board one recently.

'Primarily' allegorical and symbolic was meant to indicate that this is not the only level of meaning. There are history and real Self-realized souls and Gurus involved in these allegories, just as in the Mahabharata, as we know. Jesus and his Guru are in the Old Testament, too.

But we would all agree, I think, that understanding the spiritual meaning, as opposed to the historical, is more important. Just as Master dealt with the esoteric meaning of the Mahabharata war, and barely mentioned the historical facts of it.

I copied an article from our own magazine which gave the esoteric meaning of the 'spiritual homeland' as part of the esoteric interpretation of the Old Testament.

The esoteric is what I would like to focus on here.


:pronam: :love:


LB

OK

The esoteric meaning of the Bible is all in the SCC, GTWA, and the AY, which are available to the general public anyway if someone wants to understand and learn what it's all about.

I'm done.
OM


#13 little bird

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 09:55 AM

LB

OK

The esoteric meaning of the Bible is all in the SCC, GTWA, and the AY, which are available to the general public anyway if someone wants to understand and learn what it's all about.

I'm done.
OM


Thank you, Srfd. :pronam: :love:

That is true about the New Testament of the Bible, the strictly Christian part, but only a little of the esoteric meaning of the Old Testament (the scriptures of Judaism) is found here and there in various parts of our teachings. This was meant to be the topic of this thread.

I am always extremely interested in the how the same esoteric truths are found in the scriptures of all religions, so welcome all input along these lines, too, especially as they pertain to what is discussed about the Old Testament.

:pronam: :love:

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


#14 little bird

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 11:42 AM

I have posted this elsewhere on the boards, but since it so directly relates to this topic (and since maybe not everyone has read it) I am posting it here, too.

There are more explanations from our teachings, also.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Below is a little from the talk that I typed out a while back. Thought it might be interesting here since we were talking about Ezekiel. Brother is talking about the science of yoga being found in all the religions. He's also using Isaiah from the OT here to show that the yoga science is in different books of the OT, how they describe going down the spine from God Consciousness to the physical, and up the spine back to God Consciousness.


Experiencing God Within


The Universal Truth Behind All Religions

by Brother Anandamoy

In the talk, given in Washington, D.C., Brother Anandamoy identifies the universal needs that lie at the core of all spiritual seeking, and demonstrates how true spirituality, found in the esoteric traditions of all the world's great religions, fulfills these needs through direct personal experience of God.--from SRF site

You can see a video clip from the talk here

http://www.yogananda...eGod-popup.html


Brother Anandamoy

(Quoting from Master in the AY): "To surmount Maya was the task assigned to the human race by the millennial prophets." He doesn't say Hindu prophets, or Jewish prophets, or whatever. It is by the millennial prophets, they all have taught the same thing. To rise above the duality of creation and perceive the Unity of the Creator was conceived of as man's highest goal...

Control of the energy, this is the scientific key to—we call it yoga—but it is really the scientific key of the esoteric teachings that underlies all the great religions...

Now the principle is…as we have descended and gone out, we go in and go up, and there you are. It's as simple as that in principle…it is within. Patanjali in the Yoga Sutras one of the main keys, one of the main steps is pratyahara, interiorization. In the Koran, holy book of the Moslems, "Remember thy Lord within thyself," they all say the same thing...

And then comes the science. As I said before, how the energy and consciousness has descended and gone out. Now I show you. It's even more clear than Genesis.


Ezekiel. "Thou hast been in Eden the Garden of God." That's not a place, it's a state of consciousness. "Thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." Those are the chakras of light. "Thou was perfect in thy ways from the days that thou was created until iniquity was found in thee. And by the multitude of thy merchandise thou hast filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou has sinned." Now this is exactly that energy went out and man became so engrossed in external pursuits that he lost the divine consciousness. And so he says, "I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God, and I will destroy thee from the midst of the stones of fire." The mountain of God is the highest chakra from here (spiritual eye), the medulla and the thousand rayed lotus in the brain. That's the seat of cosmic consciousness. That's the fall of man. That's the original sin.

And so now what do we do? As we have descended, and gone outward, become body identified…we go back, isn't it? Withdraw through yoga techniques, withdraw the energy, go up and there you are. That's the spinal highway. That's what the Master called it. He said all the religious bypaths lead eventually to that because everybody has to go back into the spine and up.

Now I'll show you, Isaiah, "The highway shall be there, and it shall be called the way of holiness". That's the spine, the inner spine…the unclean shall not pass over it…meaning those that are not interested in anything spiritual, that are completely engrossed in outer pursuits, "But the wayfaring man, though fools…" St. Francis was called a 'fool' by the whole population there in Assisi…"Though fools shall not err therein. No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beasts shall go up thereon, but the ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion." Zion is another name for the holy mountain, the thousand rayed lotus. "With songs, and everlasting joy upon their heads. And they shall obtain joy and gladness and sorrow and sighing shall flee away."

And there you have it. If you understand this symbolic language—Sanatana Dharma
. "Sorrow and sighing shall flee away." Suffering eliminated. And eternal joy, bliss consciousness.

[Brother tells of going to a Jewish community being invited to talk and all he took was the Jewish prophets] And afterward some people came and one lady said, "What you people are teaching is actually our Jewish religion, isn't it? And I said, "You're absolutely right." It's the essence, it's the teaching of Judaism, but not only Judaism, it's the esoteric teaching of Christianity, and Hinduism and whatever. It's there, it's there.



"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


#15 chelaum

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 12:30 PM

Here is the post I wrote about the first chapter of John and the Mandukyopanishad. Sri John's Gospel, of course, has both the historical and allegorical qualities; whereas the Mandukyopanishad is only esoteric with no allegorical or historical qualities. With that said, many have written lengthy and in depth commentaries on this Upanishad.

http://forum.yoganan..._1

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 07:03 AM




LB, it seemed to me that you were saying that the OT was only allegorical; "The article explains that the meaning of the OT is primarily allegorical and symbolic but has been taken as literal"I was'nt intending to make this political LB. I have to point out however, that you did bring up the "Palestine" issue relating to the Jews homeland which in todays world is a highly charged political code word.


Dear Srfd, thanks. :love: We know that often just a mention of a political aspect of any topic can be picked up by others and then the thread goes off in an entirely different direction, as happened to another of my threads on board one recently.

'Primarily' allegorical and symbolic was meant to indicate that this is not the only level of meaning. There are history and real Self-realized souls and Gurus involved in these allegories, just as in the Mahabharata, as we know. Jesus and his Guru are in the Old Testament, too.

But we would all agree, I think, that understanding the spiritual meaning, as opposed to the historical, is more important. Just as Master dealt with the esoteric meaning of the Mahabharata war, and barely mentioned the historical facts of it.

I copied an article from our own magazine which gave the esoteric meaning of the 'spiritual homeland' as part of the esoteric interpretation of the Old Testament.

The esoteric is what I would like to focus on here.


:pronam: :love:


LB

OK

The esoteric meaning of the Bible is all in the SCC, GTWA, and the AY, which are available to the general public anyway if someone wants to understand and learn what it's all about.

I'm done.
OM


Thank you, Srfd. :pronam: :love:

That is true about the New Testament of the Bible, the strictly Christian part, but only a little of the esoteric meaning of the Old Testament (the scriptures of Judaism) is found here and there in various parts of our teachings. This was meant to be the topic of this thread.

I am always extremely interested in the how the same esoteric truths are found in the scriptures of all religions, so welcome all input along these lines, too, especially as they pertain to what is discussed about the Old Testament.

:pronam: :love:


LB

It might be in your interest to look into the Kabbalah.


#17 little bird

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:04 AM

LB It might be in your interest to look into the Kabbalah.



Thanks, Srfd. I know the Kabbalah deals with the esoteric teachings of Judaism, but it never really interested me before as I didn't know any way to connect it directly to what our teachings say about Judaism, until recently. :pronam: :love:

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ


#18 little bird

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Posted 04 December 2010 - 02:43 PM

from the article in the first post of this thread:

So-called "Rationalists" and Bible-critics have always displayed poor judgment in their attack on the scriptures, by showing first of all their ignorance as to the meaning of their subject. Bob Ingersoll, for instance, pointed out certain passages of the Psalms as examples of the most corrupt writings in all the world's literature, and as evidence tending to show that the psalmists were as corrupt, revengeful and primitive as any savage of the jungle.

True enough, the psalmist prays to the Lord for help to torture to death his enemies and their children, but Ingersoll did not grasp the fact that he was dealing with an allegoric writing, and that the psalmist speaks about the enemies of self, namely, the physical desires, parental inheritances, habits and propensities of the flesh, which are the last and most enduring enemies which man has to fight.



My search on the Psalms led me to something else very interesting. It seems that the Koran speaks of the Psalms (called the Zabur) of King David as one of the Holy Scriptures given by God, along with the Jewish Torah of Moses, and the Gospel of Christ. And that all these holy scriptures are considered to have taught the same truths. (This truth can be assumed to be the esoteric truths, such as our teachings say, since the exoteric teachings naturally differ).


Zabur (Arabic: زبور‎) is, according to Islam, the holy book of Dawud (David), one of the holy books revealed by God before the Qur'an, alongside others such as the Tawrat (Torah) of Musa (Moses) and the Injil (Gospel) of Isa (Jesus).


The Zabur of Dawud (David) is referred to in the Qur'an as one of God's books revealed to four selected messengers. The Zabur is preceded by the Taurat (Torah) given to Moses and followed by the Injeel (Gospel) given to Jesus and finally the Qur'an given to the Islamic prophet, Muhammad.

According to Islam, it (the Qur'an) has been there even since the time of Adem (Adam, who is considered the first human) and not beginning in the 7th century. The Aqeedah (belief system) of Islam is believed to be exactly the same in every single one of the four scriptures and several scrolls and is thought exactly the same by every prophet. Considering this it can be assumed the theological aspects of the Zabur (Psalms) be exactly the same as the Qur'an…

In the Qur'an, mention of the Zabur (Psalms)


We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.
—Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayah 163[4][5]

And it is your Lord that knoweth best all beings that are in the heavens and on earth: We did bestow on some prophets more (and other) gifts than on others: and We gave to David (the gift of) the Psalms.
—Qur'an, Sura 17 (Al-Isra), ayah 55[6]

Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."
—Qur'an, sura 21 (Al-Anbiya), ayah 105[3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zabur

In this same symbology, King David himself is a symbolical figure and stands for man at that advanced stage of spiritual development where he has taken up the battle against the enemies of self. We also find that the Psalms are full of lamentations by David that his enemies continually try, in various ways, to destroy his soul.

The other class of forces, written about by the prophets and psalmists as always being in conflict with the former, are called the righteous people, God's people, who appeal to the Lord for help to destroy their enemies. These forces, then, represent the spiritual powers and faculties in the soul and nature of man



So here we have a way to correctly interpret not only the esoteric meaning of the OT, but also the Koran.

:pronam: :love:

"May Thy Love shine forever on the sanctuary of our devotion, and may we be able to awaken Thy Love in all hearts."

"Only Love can take my place." Master

"Love one another." Christ





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